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David Barton Endorses Glenn Beck's "Christianity"

Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2411 posts
August 24, 2011 10:19:55 AM EDT

I used to really like David Barton. I still like him and agree with him on a lot of points. But to say Glenn Beck is a Christian - when he's a Mormon is way off base. I really have second thoughts about Barton now with this huge defense of Beck's Mormon "Christianity".
Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2411 posts
August 24, 2011 11:24:45 AM EDT

He says a lot of disturbing things in this video.

Among them:

1. He doesn't like labels. We shouldn't believe Beck is a Mormon (although that's what he calls himself), because Beck says he's a Christian (which is a label as well)! He says he's been with Beck when Beck talked about atonement, and when Beck said he felt like God was telling him to speak out of a particular Bible passage.

Apparently Barton doesn't know (or doesn't care) that Beck, in his book "The 7" says he believes things that are in complete opposition to Christianity. For instance, in this book Beck proclaims all kinds of new age beliefs - like God is in everyone, and we all have an energy running through us that connects us to everything in the universe and we can achieve salvation if we just learn how to access this energy inside of us. That's a completely contradiction to Biblical teachings - which say we cannot be saved by accessing anything inside of us - we can only be saved through faith in Christ alone. Based on these passages alone, Beck can't be a Christian - by his own statements.

2. He indicates that since Beck approvingly quotes parts of the Bible that he's a real Christian, and "Mormonism" is just a label... and we shouldn't use labels!

3. He says the fact that he now goes to a Mormon church "doesn't say anything about his personal relationship with Jesus." But how could it not, unless he is completely unaware of everything Mormonism teaches? But Beck himself says he took a lot of time and considered all the teachigns of Mormonism, presumably including their central doctrines. Part of those central doctrines are the teachings that Jesus wasn't God, that he was created by human birth and that he is the brother of Satan.

4. Barton says he believes Beck is a Christian because, "I have literally watched him pray and hear from the Lord and turn on a dime." That's interesting because it's impossible for any human to know what another person might hear from the Lord. That's solely based on what the other person tells you they hear from the Lord.

5. He says he's a Christian because "the fellowship's very good" and "we talk about scriptures openly."

6. Barton says we shouldn't "interpret" what Glenn Beck means by the words he says. By which he means, if Beck says he's a Mormon that we then should not interpret what he means when he says the name "Jesus" by what Mormonism teaches about Jesus. This is patently ridiculous. Of course we have ot interpret what he means by "Jesus" by what the religion he claims to be a part of teaches about Jesus.

While I believe Barton and Beck are both solid on many things (Barton on American history and Beck on politics), Barton is not solid on this. And this ecumenical path he is on is of such a serious nature that we have to be naturally skeptical of everything else he says.

Measure everything a Christian leader says against the Word of God.
Hassan Nurullah
- 167 posts
August 24, 2011 12:18:57 PM EDT

When you reject objective truth as it pertains to Biblical doctrine and the mandate to maintain orthodoxy, in favor of bringing all people together to face the other "bigger fish" that is obscured by Christians rejecting false faith, you are playing into the hands of the devil.

"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. " Revelation 13:5-9

It is satan who works most tirelessly to promote unity on earth. This is why he makes war on the saints, the saints spoken of here are Christians. Christians stand against unity on earth because we recognize that it is a false unity. The only true unity will come with the Lord when He returns to establish His Kingdom. It will be a unity of believers.
Hassan Nurullah
- 167 posts
August 24, 2011 12:22:21 PM EDT

All false religion is satan worship and satan will succeed in uniting all men politically and spiritually, all except Christians will join together in worshiping the beast.
Daniel Geer
- 46 posts
August 24, 2011 10:53:28 PM EDT

Funny thing about labels and definitions. Without clear definitions, they are pointless. But definition brings focus, and then words, any words, have more meaning when they are focused. The word "Christian" is bantered about all the time and has lost its definition, its focus. Real Christians can correct this. Glen Beck may be many things, but Christian is not one of them.
Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2411 posts
August 24, 2011 10:56:56 PM EDT

Good comments Daniel and Hassan.
Lef Elliot
- 7 posts
August 31, 2011 8:27:16 AM EDT

I respectfully disagree with all the previous comments.

Who are you guys to label anyone's true personal beliefs ?

OK Beck was born a Mormon. Does it mean you have to encase him into a specific box? Is a man not allowed to express his inner beliefs occasionally? If Beck 'feels' he is a Christian, why do you not accept that he truly feels that way? Recently I have heard Beck say his wish to be inspired and follow his 'personal saviour' Jesus. Wheatever his denomination, does that not point to his being a Christian ?

One goes through various religious 'ups and downs' through a lifetime. We are all searching for the famous and elusive 'Truth'. Whatever our belief system, surely there is ONE factor that unites us : The belief that our world has a Creator and that we should strive to live our life bearing in mind that one day, after death, our soul may have to face G-d's jugement.
I happen to be a Jew but whatever our label as you say, surely the Almighty G-d will factor in our respective life circumstances. I am certain G-d dos NOT judge every soul in the world according to the exact same standard. Leave it to G-d to take into account our formative knowledge, beliefs, education and all the labels that others have painted on us.

Since you guys seem so particular about labels and denominations, why not knitpick on the various 'Christian' labels ? Leave those born into other traditions find their own way to G-d. And please dont bring Satan into every difference or else your logic will lead you to condemn ALL denominations except the one you happen to follow because you hold it as closest to G-d. If one denomination ONLY is the right one, does it make all others inspired by 'Satan' ?

The beauty of Judaism is that we never try to persuade anyone that our tradition is better. If G-d had wanted someone to be XYZ, He would have brought into the world the person in this XYZ tradition.

I find this very sensible and sensitive to other people's inner beliefs.
Julia Newbern
- 42 posts
August 31, 2011 8:54:04 AM EDT

Glenn Beck wasn't BORN Mormon; not one person is BORN any religion. You have to adopt that religion as your own, whether by virtue of being raised in it, or internalizing it as your own belief system.

Otherwise, that sounds like my son-in-law, who says he was BORN Catholic... NOPE... he was BORN Irish; Catholicism is simply the religion he was raised in, but does not practice, or even begin to do so!

There are many who would say that Catholics are also not Christians, as it states in the Bible that "Thou shalt not worship idols", and yet Catholics pray to statues of saints every day, rather than pray directly to God or Christ Jesus. They go to a priest requesting intercession for absolution of their sins, when Jesus became the intercessor, the ONLY one, needed. There's more, there, of course.

My understanding is that Glenn Beck became a Mormon, and that it occurred after he almost sacrificed his life to his alcoholism. There was someone who he turned to, who introduced him to Christianity through Mormonism, and when he accepted Christ, it was under those tenets/beliefs.

Lef, my guy's grandmother was a very gracious Jewish lady, but because his father is Mexican, for some reason he did not want to acknowledge that heritage. Jim became a Christian in his late teens, and later attended and graduated from Berean Bible College, studying the Bible and the extrabiblical books.

When he found out his grandmother was a Jew, he began looking into his Jewish heritage. He has taught himself to read/speak Hebrew, though not fluently, I'm sure, as yet.

He has been connecting the dots between the two faiths in more ways than one, and is every morning on his knees in prayer, and also reading both his Bible and his Torah, his Mishna, the Zohar and more.

Years ago, he was in prison ministry, and he found that those who accepted Christ in prison, while from very divided, diverse backgrounds in some cases, accepted the Bible and Christ in total. These are men who came from very low places, in their lives, their pasts and their very souls. However rough their exterior may have been, though, one thing was evident; their love of Jesus, and that they knew their soul was saved. They may not have turned their lives around overnight, especially considering their environment, but they KNEW, within themselves.

They didn't really have anything else but what they were shown, and a Bible became a precious thing. Granted, they're institutionalized, yet those who were not 'pretending' their faith in order to score points for parole became quickly evident as well.

Jim even spoke w/a man who was an avowed Muslim, who asked Jim to read his Qu'ran, which Jim said he would do, but only if, in exchange, the Muslim man read his Bible.

After they did so, it was a couple of weeks later (there's not much to do in prison) that the Muslim began asking him questions about Jesus and the Bible, since he had never been taught anything about Christ except that Christ was a prophet, and a soldier/follower of Mohammed... which is kind of hard, considering Mohammed lived over 500 years after Christ. That Muslim is now a Christian man, albeit one who will spend the rest of his life in prison. His exterior may look to be unchanged, but it's what he feels in his soul which count.
Donna Whitaker
- 8 posts
August 31, 2011 9:40:06 AM EDT

Wow. All this dividing US by faith now? I always thought America was free to worship as we choose? David Barton is a fantastic man. I wish I had half his knowledge. Glenn Beck is doing one fantastic job waking up American's to the attacks from within. Who gives a rats butt what church he worships in?? The real problem is our gov trying to remove GOD from America and install an evil satan worshiping cult & communism. (good luck with that combo). Lets be American's and take a man for his works.
Donna Whitaker
- 8 posts
August 31, 2011 9:51:36 AM EDT

Lef, I like your reply. But His name is spelled GOD. Why do you not spell it out? He has many names in many tongues. I guess it just irks me with all this anti-religion crap in America going on now. I hate the word satan. Even though I know he exist.
Keven Card
- 1 posts
August 31, 2011 9:58:08 AM EDT

Has anyone who takes issue with Barton;considered that maybe he's been called by God to be close to Beck to influence him toward what you are complaining that Beck isn't because he's Mormon? If you look for the bad you'll find it, but if you look toward good you'll also find it and all things good come from God?
Julia Newbern
- 42 posts
August 31, 2011 10:11:40 AM EDT

Donna, in the Judaic faith, you do not spell out His name... a point of honoring the Lord, not of disrepect.
Julia Newbern
- 42 posts
August 31, 2011 10:12:46 AM EDT

Keven Card said:
Has anyone who takes issue with Barton;considered that maybe he's been called by God to be close to Beck to influence him toward what you are complaining that Beck isn't because he's Mormon? If you look for the bad you'll find it, but if you look toward good you'll also find it and all things good come from God?

Thank you, Keven... your comment is appreciated.
Chesty Puller
- 98 posts
September 1, 2011 2:13:04 PM EDT

Quick note to all Christian's, which I myself am a 'practicing' Christian, Why are you called Christian's and not Jewish, Muslim, or Jehovah's?
The answer is because Christian's BELIEVE Jesus came down to earth, that Jesus is the Son of God, that Jesus died for OUR sins. So tell me 'Christian's' do Mormon's believe in Jesus? Short answer is YES!
second point all of us need to remember: God and Jesus told us NOT to pass judgment on anyone. God is the only one that will judge us. David Barton is a good man, Glenn Beck is a good man. Question how many of you have put the financial future, (in Texas Hold'em it is called going all in), of yourself and your family on the line to protect God's chosen land and people. How many of you have gone all in to speak out against people that are attempting to steal your neighbors freedom's? Remember all of us Christian's should know what God tells us about those that stand idly by when their neighbor is in need of help.

May God Bless us all, and cleanse us of our sins
Hassan Nurullah
- 167 posts
September 1, 2011 2:23:16 PM EDT

Couple of quick questions Chesty, was Jesus pre-born in heaven to father god and mother god the spirit brother of Lucifer?

Was Jesus born on earth as a result of the Father having physical intercourse with Mary so that she was not in fact a virgin who gave birth to the Savior?
Chesty Puller
- 98 posts
September 1, 2011 2:51:29 PM EDT

Hassan I would answer that, but knowing you are God fearing individual yourself, we both know of the Holy spirit and Mary don't we.
Question's for you Hassan; does every Christian refrain from fornication? Does every Christian tithe? Does every Christian know and read the Bible? The Answers to these questions will as well answer your questions, for you see Hassan, not all Christian's believe or even now what the Bible say's.

Many Christian's believe in Abortion, or at least have them, many believe in getting drunk and watching dirty movies. Some even believe the act of sodomy is ok. Are you saying that you know for a Fact that Glenn Beck is a book thumping Mormon? Are you saying that no one but a Christian can do the Lord's work?

Does King Abimelech ring any bells?
How about King Chushanrishatham?

The Lord speaks of using others to punish or help the Hebrew people that have strayed. Hassan are you saying God couldn't use Glenn Beck to do his work? For that matter cannot God use a cripple or a dead person to do his work?
Taylor Todd
- 1 posts
September 1, 2011 3:19:12 PM EDT

I am still not sure on where this Jesus and Satan are brothers comes from.....because I was never taught that, and I know that Jesus died for me and my sins, and that God the father is the one and only God......I was raised in the church, baptized by water emerision, studied out of the King James bible....so I am telling you the mormons believe that Jesus is the son of God, the Devil was an Angel kicked out of heaven...and that Mary was the mother of Jesus who was a virgin.
Diana Shifley
- 1055 posts
September 1, 2011 8:40:42 PM EDT

Chesty, all Christians sin. The only difference is that we are forgiven - all of our sins, past, present, and future.

Doing the 'Lord's work' is almost useless if you are not His child. Yes, He can use anyone, but that will not assure them of a blessing and eternal life.
Deleted Member
September 1, 2011 11:56:18 PM EDT

Johnathan -

Nice summation. Clearly, and sadly, David Barton has fallen off his rocker, as evidenced by him endorsing Glenn Beck's [pseudo] "Christianity."

I am not surprised over Christians being deceived and becoming ecumenical in their efforts to bend over backwards to receive those outside the pale of historic creedal Christianity. After all, Christ prophesied that there would be those who would fall away from the Faith. Did he not say: -- "Many will come in My Name........?"

Just recently, Michael Youseff remarked how he thought New York City's Mayor did Christians a favor for barring clergy for this month's 10th anniversary 9/11 memorial celebration. His clear reasoning was, as follows:

"Why I agree with the mayor of New York City:"

.........But when it comes to not having any "clergy" at the tenth commemoration of that day of infamy, I believe Mayor Bloomberg did the right thing -- even though I am sure we see his decision from very different viewpoints. Most likely, his reason for barring "clergy" from the event is fear that he may offend one group or another.

However, the way I and many other faithful Christians see it is as an act of mercy -- sparing us the spectacle of bundling all religions together as if they are worshipping one god or as if all these gods are equal. Indeed, Mayor Rudy Giuliani's "Prayer for America" memorial service, held 12 days after the 9/11 attacks, was extremely painful for the faithful Christians who watched. It gave the impression that all gods are equal to the one true God -- the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Every conceivable group, from Hindus, Buddhists and other non-monotheistic groups (unknown to most Americans) to different Muslim sects, Sikhs, Jewish groups, and Christian denominations of all stripes, was given an opportunity to "pray." Tragically, every representative of a Christian denomination, but one, judiciously avoided mentioning the unmentionable -- Jesus Christ -- out of political correctness. There was only one elderly Armenian Orthodox bishop who dared to utter the name of our Savior, the Son of the living God.

From the very beginning in Sinai, our heavenly Father warned Moses before entering the Promised Land that His people must not fall into syncretism by bundling and muddling their worship with the Canaanites, who worshiped all sorts of gods that were not gods at all. Yet God's people just couldn't help themselves and kept on mixing Yahweh with all of the "non-God" gods. Year after year, the prophets continuously warned them against that travesty, until finally, when they did not heed the warning, judgment came in the form of the Babylonian exile.

Sadly, America is committing the same abomination of syncretism -- mixing the God of the Founding Fathers with all those other "non-God" gods. Could judgment be around the corner? We will wait and see...........

http://onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1422360

To be sure, modern day Christians are so prone to reflect the political correctness of the culture and the multi-cultural belief that all value systems are equal in this Constitutional ("Democratic") Republic. Nothing could be farther from the Gospel truth, however. The Christian New Testament Scriptures make it clear that those who truly are Christ's disciples, will stand up and earnestly contend for [stuggle / agonize for] the "faith, once delivered to the saints." [Jude 3-4 - KJV]

Calling Glenn Beck a "Christian," is like calling a red fox, a hen house bodyguard..........

This post was edited by Deleted Member at September 2, 2011 12:58:23 PM EDT
Diana Shifley
- 1055 posts
September 2, 2011 1:24:12 AM EDT

Nathan, I totally agree.