Stephen Leach said:
@Mark- I dont' know how much or how little of His Word you actually understand, so I hope I'm speaking in terms I assume you should understand if your church is doing it's job correctly. The 'tribal nations of Israel' are just that...ancient Israels 12 tribes which rejected the Lord not once, but twice, and were scattered throughout the nations of the world after 70AD.
Look closely at what is written. I'll repost here for your edification:
The cross marks the four corners of history, where the Way meets the broad road. The tribal nations of Israel go down into the center of the cross, while the gentile nations go up to it. The spiritual nations of Israel cross through and go up from the cross along the Way while, at the same time, the gentile nations cross through and go down from it on the broad road. It is like moving along the arms of the letter ‘X’, with Jesus at its core, as the point through which all mankind must travel to get to the other side. It is here that one passes from the temporal, natural world to the spiritual kingdom, where he will spend an eternity.
Notice, there is a distinguishment between "The tribal nations of Israel" and "The spiritual nations of Israel." If there is no difference intended, this should have been clarified. If there is a difference intended, this also should have been clarified. I found the whole thing written in a confusing manner.
Stephen Leach said:
Gentile nations are those that never had the Lord as head of their countries, worshipped pagan gods with eastern based cultic religions that controlled their nations under various leaders. The reason for the 2 different applications of 'gentile nations' is to separate the 2 periods of our time. Before Christ and after, where the House of Israel went from a physical natural nation, to a spiritual nation that also was seen in the natural. The gentile nations of the world that surrounded ancient Israel make up the first part where they 'start below and go up' to the center of the cross, make their decision about whether they believe the Lord our God or not. IF they reject Him, they return to the lower position meaning they will have no part in the Kingdom of God or the House of Israel. The 2nd part where they start at the higher part, go to the center of the cross, then make their decision, sees them going down. Prior to Jesus' arrival, the genitle nations of the world either believed upon the Lord or they didn't. most didn't.
This talk of "gentile nations" is worthless, and gratuitous. God does not save nations. God saves individuals. Can you name one "gentile nation" that is saved?
Stephen Leach said:
After His arrival and ascention into Heaven, the gospel of Jesus was being spread out to all the world...most of ancient Europe came under control of the Roman Empire and upon it's demise, replaced by the catholic church, which in essence, kept the old ancient Roman empire in tact. The people would either believe upon the name of the Lord or they would not. Spiritual Israel, is the counterpart to natural Israel.
The spiritual counterpart to spiritual Israel is the Church. The counterpart to natural Israel is the world.
Stephen Leach said:
Only 2 nations on the planet ever went into Covenant with the Lord, they being ancient Israel and America (Canada/USA) by the fact that both American nations declare God to have supremacy in the land.
The only nation on the planet that has a Covenant with God is the SPIRITUAL nation of Israel, which is the New Testament/Convenant Church. America never officially declared themselves as a Christian nation. The reason that many Christians refer to America as a "Christian nation" is because of the Christian heritage of the Founders of this nation, not because of any official declaration. And, besides, there is no record that God ever entered into Covenant with America or Canada.
Jonathan Cousar said:
Stephen, just one point I'd like to throw in on something you said about being led by women. I believe Mark asked you how you could justify that in light of the Biblical demands on the subject. Your answer was in part to say that women have contributed greatly throughout history (true) and that because of that you felt totally comfortable with it.
That question is still not answered.
Jill the Free-Range Arizonan said:
The ONLY book of the Bible that says it cannot be changed is the Book of Revelation.
This is somewhat misleading, because there are two things wrong with that statement. Firstly, there are two books (one in the Old Testament) that state the same thing. Secondly, the doctrines in the Bible are so intertwined, that if you changed something in the book of Daniel, you would "change" something in the book of Revelation. You cannot change something in one "book" without effecting the Bible as a whole.
Stephen Leach said:
What is 'FoureSquare'? I've never heard of that...even among christian circles. Is it some kind of new fad in the christian church or something?
Four Square is an extreme version of Pentecostalism, which declares that they have all four, complete sides of a square, and not just three. They proclaim that if you have not received the Holy Spirit (speaking in tongues), that you are not a true, born-again believer. It was started by a woman (Aimee Semple McPherson).
Tiffaney Israel-Ritchey said:
Your christian bible says that jesus celebrated the passover meal, was taken to the high priest, was sentenced to crucification right? Well, obviously y'all no nothing about Jewish law, the Temple and crucification. Trials were only heald on Mondays and Thursdays before the Sanhedrin which consisted of 125 men. With a lot of other rules. No trials were allowed on holidays!!! Holidays were instituted by G-d, to handle legal matters were forbidden!!! Crucification was against jewish law and always has been. Plus, what jesus did, did not qualify for the death penalty. Jews very rarely instuted the death penalty. Go study!! Plus what jesus was doing had been done before by others claiming to be the messiah. Even when you go to Israel today you can find at least 2 men by the entrance to the western wall. One even carries a cross. It was custom for the Roman culture to crucify people and they would leave the bodies up for days to intemidate people then the bodies were burned not given a burial. Out of all the crucifications the Romans did in Israel only one tomb has been discovered in Israel in 1968 and they could tell that the person was crucified. Also, if G-d tells you to support Israel or you will be cursed that makes no since if we are going to be spending eternity being burned and tortured. Also, the concept of "hell" did not exist until the second century. Now go study!!! There is a lot more you need to learn.
There are some things I'd like to answer here, but I have to get back to work soon. I'll come back later when I have time. Thanks for the comments, Tiffaney.
