Chesty Puller said:
Mike you use of the word 'Deist' to describe the founders shows YOU actually do not know the founders. You should be aware that Jefferson went to church each and every Sunday, at times during great storms while he was President. Franklin as well was a true believer in the one true God. Most do not realize that Thomas Jefferson did not believe in a separation of Church in State as anything more then a one way valve, meaning God has control of the government, but the government has no control over the church. Why don't we lay off history we learned in Public school and stick to the facts of what we do not like about OUR party. On a final note most if not all the founders gave all their fortunes to provide for the military effort to secure the right's of the creator. My question is how much has Ron Paul gained while trying to 'preach' the founders message?
do i really have to waste my time in class and copy and past direct quotes proving that you are wrong, or can i just suggest that you look them up on your own?
and he gets marginalized in the media. fox news wanted john mccain or mitt romny since day 1. watch the debates in 08 and see how dr paul is the only one who doesn't use anti-democrat platitudes and humor to get his points across.
our primary system is just a beauty pageant. the only person who actually brings the issues to shape the debate get unfair treatment by mediators going after Paul's base than the issues at hand.
most candidates don't "do" issues because they know nothing about economics, the constitution, or rule of law.
Anyone who believes the founders were Deists needs only to read the founders' own words to discover the truth. Reading the many letters written by Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, etc., illustrates that they were, for the most part, Christian. They probably weren't Christian in the way we think of being Christian today because Christianity, like so many other things, has changed and evolved over the years.
As far as Ron Paul goes, any support for him is a waste of time and resources. No matter whether he is, in your eyes, the best candidate ever to have even thought about running for office, he (like Palin) is unelectable. Their bad reputations (regardless of you're in agreement or disagreement about what their reputations are) precede them and will prevent their ascension to the throne.
Of all the prospective GOP Presidential candidates, there is only one "front runner" that I would sit out the election over. That would be Sarah Palin, who it appears would now be unable to get the nomination, but I'm just sayin'. I agree with those who say there isn't a flawless person on the list of potentials. But any of those who are registering with at least a few points in current polling would be a "savior" in my book. Wimpy Paul, Dirty Gingrich, RomneyCare, Huckabee the Pardoner, Pawlenty the Charisma-Challenged, and Crazy Bachmann would all be an improvement over Obama the Destroyer. Ok...maybe I would sit out an Obama-Bachmann race too.
I have paid attention Mike, and I have seen beauty queens, queens and straight up phoney's run and win election. Beauty Queen example OBAMA and Billy C., Queen-Barney Frank, Straight up phoney's- John Kerry and Ron Paul. It is one thing to be ignorant of the law or Constitution (neither of which are proper of Politicians), but to have been shown the law, profess the law, and do nothing about the illegal actions going on around you in the law... Not a person I want in charge of the entire free world (U.S.A.).
As for Palin; Mark, I would definitely vote for her over Obummer, I would vote for Ron over Obummer as well. What I would never do is not vote. That is un American!! The founders gave all for us to have that right, the framers argued for months on the ability for us to keep that right. I will not dishonor those great American's by not voting.
But getting back to Ron, Mike we are discussing what we know or perceive to know about possible candidates. I suggest if you can't hear about the faults of your 'top' candidate I suggest you do not tell anyone who it is. Jeeze, I do not even have a top choice right now. I see Michelle B, Herman C, Chris C. and a few others as the group I wish would somehow join together this Presidential election, but not sure which two are best.
One thing I do know, my choices are not for flash appeal but, for substance... and most people do not know substance. I'll wrap this post up with "Doing what is right isn't always popular, but doing what is popular is usually never right!" (My quote derived from a great quote.)
Pat Davis said:
Anyone who believes the founders were Deists needs only to read the founders' own words to discover the truth. Reading the many letters written by Washington, Franklin, Jefferson, Adams, etc., illustrates that they were, for the most part, Christian. They probably weren't Christian in the way we think of being Christian today because Christianity, like so many other things, has changed and evolved over the years.
As far as Ron Paul goes, any support for him is a waste of time and resources. No matter whether he is, in your eyes, the best candidate ever to have even thought about running for office, he (like Palin) is unelectable. Their bad reputations (regardless of you're in agreement or disagreement about what their reputations are) precede them and will prevent their ascension to the throne.
The opposite is true. They call themselves deists. Deism is a branch of Christianity. Look at the letter exchanges between Jefferson and Adams. Jefferson clearly makes this point.
And Chest, it's about the constitution and sensible policy. No other candidate will speak or even bring light to the fact that the dollar bubble/ credit bubble/ government bubble is about to pop, or how our foreign policy is directly correlated to our monetary policy, or that the American Empire is about to be dishonorable brought to its knees due to enormous sovereign debt that eclipses Greece... also Dr. Paul have voted 100% in line with the constitution as a founding originalist.
Mike it would be nice to believe you and Ron Paul as the second coming, but I have seen him in action, especially on the tax issue in 2004. He found the truth admitted the truth, on film in Freedom to Fascism, and did nothing to stop the scam that is being levied on the average American. Do you realize that Ron Paul knows that over 87% of Americans DO NOT owe federal income tax on their personal income? Ron Paul knows this. Do you know that this scam brings in over $680,000,000,000.00 per year? Ron Paul knows this. Do you know that not one penny of this is used to 'run' the country? Again Ron Paul knows this, and this is only one issue. It is a huge issue, but still only one issue. It tie's into government earmarks, politicians padding their pockets and the money given to organizations such as Planned Parenthood and Acorn to name a few.
I wonder, if the founding fathers would agree that to know about this issue and not do anything about it would be proper and good? Hmmm, seems to me they actually took up this very issue and fought a war for freedom over it!
You explain that I should read the letters of Jefferson and Adams, I have. I read the earlier and later correspondence, I have also read Jefferson's writting's as well as Franklin's Washington's, Adams (all three), Hamilton, Whitmore, Madison and Hoosier to name a few. What is found in their writings is the fact that publicly they worked so hard to grant each person the image of personal freedom, that Washington refused to wear his military attire while President, clothing he wore ever time in public before and after becoming President, to ensure the image that the President wasn't a dictator or King. Jefferson read every religious book in he could get his hands on and wrote of their belief's, but attended Christian mass in Washington every Sunday while President. Franklin wrote of Deist belief's while professing his faith in the one true "Deity" God (maybe this is where your confusion omes in, Deist, Deity they are two different definitions), he even went as far as to push for the first American governmental seal to depict Moses, the burning bush and the God of the heavens. To clear up any misconception's as to what a 'Deist' is; it is the belief of religion through nature, not of a 'Divine' one or a 'Creator'. Which each of the men I mentioned 'ALL' believed in. This I learned by reading their personal writings and diaries.
Of course we could go on and on about the founders, but this is about the misconception's of one's political belief system. To this Michael, I say let us stick to the now. If you believe in Ron Paul, as I explained earlier, that is your right and your decision. To try and get others to believe in your belief is not your decision, maybe you should read the 5000 year leap it could help clear this up.
Ron Paul will not beat the Democrat as the Presidential Candidate, maybe as a V.P. But, not in the lead position. Sorry for speaking honestly, but it is what it is.
There are no Republicans in Washington DC. There are no Democrats either. There are just "politicians".
Proving beyond doubt there are "two America's, Us and them. It will never change unless we the people can educate those that believe the promises of those corrupting our system. It is a long road, but it must be done before anything else can be attempted.
