Habib said:Is the Christ-rejecting Jew a child of Abraham? The New Testament replies with a resounding “NO!”: “Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.” (Galatians 3:7). In the context of the Abrahamic Covenant, it follows that those who are not of Abraham's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, for sure are not sons of Abraham: “For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but 'THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.' That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.” (Romans 9:6-8).
Only the believers in Christ, regardless of physical descent, are the true children of Abraham and the exclusive heirs of the Abrahamic Covenant: “And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.” (Galatians 3:29).
Mary Ann - Regarding your 2/17/11 - 1:10 AM comment about your disagreement with Habib:
You quote the following Scripture:
“For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but 'THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.' That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.” (Romans 9:6-8).
I think that you would be able to understand where Habib is coming from if you would recognize, (inherent, in context), in the actual text, the distinction that is made -- namely between the "children of the flesh" [unbelievers] and those who the Lord would call [elect / bring in] -- specifically, those, designated as the "children of promise" [those who would come by faith in Christ].
Lesli K said:
Dr. Khoury... Can you break that down and it explain it to me like I'm a 5 year old?? The theology of it is confusing me a little. Are you saying that we aren't supposed to support Israel? Because I strongly disagree with that --if that is what you are saying. I respect your knowledge of the bible - but I think we really need to be praying for them and standing behind Netanyahu.. I think they are big time players in the End Times. If I mis-understood you, I'm apologize. I am going to re-read it - but maybe you could sum it up in a sentence or two.. sorry -- you're dealing with a blonde...
Lesli, the New Testament has freed the Christian from bondage to the Jewish Race and all other races. In Chist Jesus there is no Jew or Gentile. All are one in Christ. Outside Christ, all are sinners condemned by the Lord God. The Christian has no duty toward any nation except his own. However, the Christian may choose to be a blessing to other nations as well.
As for the Christ-rejecting modern Israel, the Christian has no God-given obligation.
Nathan, election/calling/grafting is not the same thing as being a child of promise. They aren't even close to being the same thing. The quoted scripture does not in any way say or support this. I think it is clear that Habib (and you, if you agree with him) is using these various scripture quotes, out of context or deliberately misinterpreted, to bolster an extra-Biblical personal agenda--to excise the children of promise from their rightful place in scripture and in the land of Israel.
Habib did you really say, "The Christian has no duty toward any nation except his own."? What do you make of the Great Commission in Matthew 28?
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Nathan Bickel said:
Re: Dr. Khoury's Comment of 2/16/11 -- 11:42 PM: Dr. Khoury - At first reading, of what you have written, I have to agree. I think that many Christians (mistakenly) feel that modern day Israel is equated with the Israel often spoken of in the Scriptures. Your expose about the Abrahamic Covenant [faith in Jesus Christ] helps to point out the distinction. In your comments on this forum and on your website, (with the 5 articles), you point out how the ancient Jewish nation [by and large] rejected their Messiah, and that, by that, rejection, their refusal opened the door for the Gentiles, vis-a-vis the gracious plan of God. This plan of God, has always been, through the promise, of faith -- just as it began with Abraham, when God chose him to be the father of those who would come by faith to [in] Jesus Christ. However, there is something that I believe, you overlooked in your comment. It is, where you state: "........The Christians of the world who choose not to pray for, not to support and/or not to finance the State of Israel --- in so doing, DO NOT VIOLATE SCRIPTURE, and therefore do not sin by making such a choice........' I'm sure that you did not intend to suggest that Christians are not to violate Scripture's clear command to pray for all men - especially, those who are in authority. That command, would, of course include all the souls in present day (modern) Israel and those who are in authority, there. [1 Timothy 2:1-4]
Nathan, you are completely right; I have removed the phrase "not to pray for" from my saved file and it will not appear in my writings again. Thank you for the correction. Those not acquainted with the passage Nathan referred to, here it is:
1First of all, then, I urge that (A)entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2(B)for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of (C)God our Savior,
4(D)who desires all men to be (E)saved and to (F)come to the knowledge of the truth.
Mary Ann Hartzler said:
Nathan, election/calling/grafting is not the same thing as being a child of promise. They aren't even close to being the same thing. The quoted scripture does not in any way say or support this.
MY RESPONSE: I deny this charge completely. It is one of your repeated attacks on the New Testament under disguise. Please demonstrate where did I violate the distinction that I dearly hold among these terms.
I think it is clear that Habib (and you, if you agree with him) is using these various scripture quotes, out of context or deliberately misinterpreted, to bolster an extra-Biblical personal agenda--to excise the children of promise from their rightful place in scripture and in the land of Israel.
MY RESPONSE: The New Testament repeatedly and clearly asserts that NO ONE, be that Jew or Gentile, is a child of promise outside Christ. Your blatant and repeated public refusal to accept the New Testament authority on the subject declares you a heretic. Any verses you interpret to offer special Divine privileges (and a false hope) outside Christ are misinterpretations and are deceptive.
Habib did you really say, "The Christian has no duty toward any nation except his own."? What do you make of the Great Commission in Matthew 28?
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."MY RESPONSE: The Great Commission is related to discipleship, not to taking money from the Gospel to give to a Gospel-rejecting nation. This stealing from the Gospel is an act of treason against the Gospel! The "All Nations" includes the work of discipleship in Israel, the Arab nations, the Muslim nations, and all other nations.
That statement from me that you quoted must be understood in the context of the discussion --- the Christian has no Divinely-appointed obligations toward Israel other than to pray for Israel as he does for all other nations, the Muslim nations not excluded.
Contrary to the New Testament, you seek to bestow upon modern Israel a certain sacredness, a Divine immunity that cannot be found in the New Testament. This is HERESY!