Nadine N said:
Shall I be the first to say, Mr. Obama stand up and do what is right for America and freedom in the world, tell the Egyptian people we are behind them, for freedom. Engage the military in Egypt for a peaceful turn of events, putting into place a high ranking military official, offering support for transition into a new government of the people's desire. Making it clear Israel has a right for peace within the land and our continued support is with them. Can this be accomplished? My assumption is Obama will not turn from his people, we are not his people, we shall during the next days and weeks see the line drawn by Obama in the sand, it may not be one we like but it is his and one we should expect given his past stances on such policies. The demise of Egypt as any kind of ally is occurring, the end of an era closes, the unknown stands ahead of us. We must understand as this unfolds, our government does not stand up of Israel, but leans towards supporting Muslims, whether it be our of ignorance, as I believe most are, or by pure design, as I believe Obama is.
See? now THAT is a potential solution...it might backfire as the MB might move into the void, but it is what a conservative would do...i.e., try to move the country to a demcratic process. Besides the fact that this is too far removed to still be in Mubarak's hands short of a US mlitary intervention, it is the only thing to do. I agree.
But that is not what a lot of people on this board has been saying until now...everyone is afraid that the process will invariably lead to another Iran situation...it might, but then again, perhaps not. The situation HAS to play out. I doubt Obama will throw Mubarak under the bus (that would be a bit too bold for him), but it would be the right thing to do, and whatever happens is largely outof our control at this point already...so, do the 'right' thing.
Tracy Chaffin said:
Ray, I'm down with that cutting off foreign aid,and insisting a peaceful resolution. We need to stop this one world Gov't crap. As it has been said in this forum already,They do not live and operate as we do. Yes ,they want freedom,But they will have to do as our forefathers did and get it together,And now looks like the best time for them to do so. As for us,We need to get this country back on track of being self sufficient.And get our country set firm as she always was.
Great response Tracy!
Until we get ourselves self sufficient, in energy as well as other matters like financial, we will always be beholden to various foreign affairs..it can't work that way, as our forefathers understood.
If we had developed our own energy independance, and hadn't been forking over money hand and fist to third world regimes out of concern for dubious environmental concerns and not wanting to see an oil rig from the shore, the middle east would still be largely undeveloped and most likely without the technological capacity or organization to seriously disrupt the world economy. Sometimes we create our own problems by 'unintended consequences'.
Ray Schmidt said:
Nadine N said:
Shall I be the first to say, Mr. Obama stand up and do what is right for America and freedom in the world, tell the Egyptian people we are behind them, for freedom. Engage the military in Egypt for a peaceful turn of events, putting into place a high ranking military official, offering support for transition into a new government of the people's desire. Making it clear Israel has a right for peace within the land and our continued support is with them. Can this be accomplished? My assumption is Obama will not turn from his people, we are not his people, we shall during the next days and weeks see the line drawn by Obama in the sand, it may not be one we like but it is his and one we should expect given his past stances on such policies. The demise of Egypt as any kind of ally is occurring, the end of an era closes, the unknown stands ahead of us. We must understand as this unfolds, our government does not stand up of Israel, but leans towards supporting Muslims, whether it be our of ignorance, as I believe most are, or by pure design, as I believe Obama is.See? now THAT is a potential solution...it might backfire as the MB might move into the void, but it is what a conservative would do...i.e., try to move the country to a demcratic process. Besides the fact that this is too far removed to still be in Mubarak's hands short of a US mlitary intervention, it is the only thing to do. I agree.
But that is not what a lot of people on this board has been saying until now...everyone is afraid that the process will invariably lead to another Iran situation...it might, but then again, perhaps not. The situation HAS to play out. I doubt Obama will throw Mubarak under the bus (that would be a bit too bold for him), but it would be the right thing to do, and whatever happens is largely outof our control at this point already...so, do the 'right' thing.
I truly believe that if they could use thier Military to set for a peaceful Resolution,They could win the people.
Thier Military stands oppossed to the MB,I don't think Egypt wants the Leadership of the MB,And therefore they could help advise the people with wisdom in the right direction
If they don't get control of this shortly,This is how the MB uses it to thier advantage and start showing the people their strong arm of protection and end up looking like the Hero.
I seen several interveiws these past few days, they don't want the MB they want freedom to walk the streets as we do here in america. The freedom to do as they will.They have not complained about money or much of anything else,They want to atleast feel free.
Tracy Chaffin said:
I truly believe that if they could use thier Military to set for a peaceful Resolution,They could win the people.Thier Military stands oppossed to the MB,I don't think Egypt wants the Leadership of the MB,And therefore they could help advise the people with wisdom in the right direction
If they don't get control of this shortly,This is how the MB uses it to thier advantage and start showing the people their strong arm of protection and end up looking like the Hero.
I seen several interveiws these past few days, they don't want the MB they want freedom to walk the streets as we do here in america. The freedom to do as they will.They have not complained about money or much of anything else,They want to atleast feel free.
I hope so Tracy...seems like the best chance for an acceptable resolution without bloodshed...but I always worry about 'military' involvement (even though I am a 22 yr vet) because not every nations military is like ours (though our ties with the egyptian military are strong).
I have also seen the interviews with people desiring to 'be free' and wanting to 'elect their government', so I am still hopeful. I wonder if a democratic Iraq has anything to do with that. There wasn't an internet in the 1970's, and people are a lot more aware of world news.
Ray Schmidt said:
Tracy Chaffin said:
I truly believe that if they could use thier Military to set for a peaceful Resolution,They could win the people.Thier Military stands oppossed to the MB,I don't think Egypt wants the Leadership of the MB,And therefore they could help advise the people with wisdom in the right direction
If they don't get control of this shortly,This is how the MB uses it to thier advantage and start showing the people their strong arm of protection and end up looking like the Hero.
I seen several interveiws these past few days, they don't want the MB they want freedom to walk the streets as we do here in america. The freedom to do as they will.They have not complained about money or much of anything else,They want to atleast feel free.
I hope so Tracy...seems like the best chance for an acceptable resolution without bloodshed...but I always worry about 'military' involvement (even though I am a 22 yr vet) because not every nations military is like ours (though our ties with the egyptian military are strong).
I have also seen the interviews with people desiring to 'be free' and wanting to 'elect their government', so I am still hopeful. I wonder if a democratic Iraq has anything to do with that. There wasn't an internet in the 1970's, and people are a lot more aware of world news.
It would have to be a transition of caution,I know what you mean by foreign Military,But we do seem to have a good base with them.They have stood with us on the whole Israel issue,and have proved to stand with us.
If the people trust them, and can show them Liberty,I believe it would fully win their trust And then their own military will be their hero's. Then if such could take place, they could draw up their own documents to instill the type of Gov't they want, and not what we should think they should have.
Who knows they may be better at it than what people give them credit for.It may not be just like ours, But let them decide so they are at peace with it.I think it will give them a sence of well being.
Tracy Chaffin said:
It would have to be a transition of caution,I know what you mean by foreign Military,But we do seem to have a good base with them.They have stood with us on the whole Israel issue,and have proved to stand with us.
If the people trust them, and can show them Liberty,I believe it would fully win their trust And then their own military will be their hero's. Then if such could take place, they could draw up their own documents to instill the type of Gov't they want, and not what we should think they should have.
Who knows they may be better at it than what people give them credit for.It may not be just like ours, But let them decide so they are at peace with it.I think it will give them a sence of well being.
I agree Tracy....I seem to have seen some interviews and articles about how the military and the people are 'one' here. It could work.
And, I hope it does...the most important thing as you mentioned is, LET IT BE THEIR OWN..let them own it. Usually works better that way.
Oleg A. said:
Revolutions sometimes have unpredictable outcomes. In Russia, the democratic forces deposed the Czar in February 1917 and established a transitional government - but it existed for only eight months before it was overthrown by the Bolsheviks in October. The Western powers, including the USA, sent their military to intervene, but soon withdrew after they were confronted by their own domestic leftists, including the unions.
As absurdly as it sounds, Islamists now have a substantial presence in the West too, and are gaining enough clout to influence their host body politic. We live in interesting times - a weird mix of contradictory trends. I wonder how much of an effect the Bush doctrine and regime change in Iraq are having on today's popular uprisings in the Arab world - and to what extent the recent riots in Greece have been an inspiration and a model, however different their goals may be.
Times like these also reveal the line separating liberty from tyranny, which runs across all nations, but often remains buried under the mundane and the superficial.
Oleg, those are such insightful and informative comments. Thank you. I'm going to have to read them a couple of times and really digest them. There's a lot there in your few short words.
Amanda Meyers said:
I really felt something brewing. I too hope for U.S. and Israel's safety. As a Jew and a current student of Arabic and Islam, all that is happening is certainly concerning. I am not partial to secularism, therefore Mubarak would have never been my first pick. Most societies break down when secular ideas are implemented. That said, those who hold extreme and violent Islamic views should not be permitted to wreck the nation of Egypt. The reason young people are so strongly against the current government is because of the lack of jobs for young people in the region despite their reasonably high level of education. This problem of high jobless rates have spawned the ability for the extreme groups to seep in and try to take hold. My prayers are with Israel, the U.S. and the whole world. The U.S. government should be encouraging peaceful talks between relevant parties and try to help the process to a decent resolution. The U.S. has a duty here, they must step up or face the consequences of INACTION.
Hey Amanda... I agree with your comments on secular governments. However, in this case, we have to realize secular is good. Because the only alternative is Islamist. Which I happen to believe is far worse than secular.
Another reason young people might be so agitated is that they have all been indoctrinated in Islamists universities. Maybe they're unhappy that the government isn't Islamist enough. I don't think what we're being told by the media - that they're all looking for Jeffersonian Democracy is really true. I don't think the "media" has any idea what they're really upset about. When were they last in Egypt!?
They just have this stereotype in their mind that anyone who rebels in a dictatorship must be looking for American-style Democracy. That may be the case... but it's a little hard for me to believe knowing how young Egyptians have been indoctrinated with Islamic views for most of their lives. It's also hard to believe in light of the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is behind most of the recent violence. It could be that they are indeed looking for freedom and democracy, but I think we all need more reliable evidence of it before coming to that conclusion.
I remember the Carter thing; he wasn’t happy with the social achievements in Iran, and demanded some human rights for Iranians. When did it become fashionable for American Presidents to tell leaders of sovereign nations how to do their job? The arrogance is beyond imagination, and shows lack of understanding that cultures are different.
Then supposing this sovereign nation takes our ‘advice’, do we support it when it fails or only if it is successful? Does our leader act the man he should be or the socialist he may be. The former would realize our advice caused a problem and would fix it, the socialist would look for a ‘fall guy’ to get the monkey off his back.
This is a very simple issue, it is euther Mubarak or the Muslim Brotherhood, the Muslim Brotherhood are the successors to the Nazis. They were created by the Dukkes Brothers and the Robber barons; Rockerfellers, Fords, kennedys, Bushes, Harrimans DuPonts etc.
Obama supports the Muslim Brotherhood
So is there any question in anyones mind here?
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/omg-barack-hussein-obama-secretly-backed-rebel-leaders-behind-egypts-riots/
I am posting part of an email a FB friend posted on my wall from one of her young friends that lives in Egypt. Text in RED is my friend, Blue bold is her friend that lives there.
This is part of an email I received from a friend just a couple of days ago, a 22 year old Christian who was born in and lives in Egypt. (English is his second language , it's a little difficult to understand, but look at what this 'kid' k...nows about the situation in Europe and the U.S.!)
to be honest also, i really really got sad when i heard that America give them the "Ground Zero" if that its name there ..... i mean the space that was the twin towers "world trade centers" .... and that they will build in there a great mosque ..... you can`t imagine how much they were happy here .... there was a celebrations and in TV channels and in every program .... they considering it like they won the war with America and the Christians ..... that by their hands now, they can turn anything to be muslims ........ the first thing got in my head (but i hope you can understand it right) that we (dummy or green or innocent Christians) still thinking that they are a regular humans ... and i told myself that day that America will be one day like France which said okay to anyone who want to enter until, now the muslims want to change the rules and want the president to be muslim !!!!! ..... a very bad idea to raise a wolf in your house because in some day during your sleeping, you will be his dinner.
an idea, maybe you don`t know, most of muslims in Egypt are considering us (Christians in Egypt) and (Christians in America) like brothers .... and as they can`t touch the big brother called America (as America a big power in the world now) so they think that by hitting the little brother who is under their hands in Egypt, that they won something :S ...... sick people.
one of the people that i think that he understood them right .... "George W.Bush" .... he knew that they must be treating with the guns which is the only way they know ... i know many Americans hate him but he is the only one that knew how to make them more polite than now ..... and Obama made the big mistake that many people did, by dealing with them with respect like normal people :S
Less than a month ago, some of Andrew's relative were injured in the New Years' Eve church bombing and one of the churches named to be targetted is only minutes from his home in Alexandria. You're right, Aprill, there are many who we need to pray for- many of whom have never known any other leader than Mubarak - and are being persecuted because they are not muslim. I fear for their safety - I fear for Andrew's safety - if a more radical government takes over.
