Do Democrats even know what FREE SPEECH Means?

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Do Democrats even know what FREE SPEECH Means?

Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2581 posts
August 10, 2009 6:17:13 PM EDT

Do Democrats realize that free speech means that even those who disagree with you are allowed to say whatever they want? Even if they're lying? Do they realize the right to lie is why they're even able to push this healthcare plan?

In a USA Today editorial this morning, majority leader Steny Hoyer and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi trashed the patriotism of those who dare to disagree with them on the best way to bring about healthcare reform in this country. By demonizing their opponents, by questioning their patriotism they are fostering an atmosphere of violence and hate which has already reared its ugly head near St. Louis last week. Last week powerful supporters of Barack Obama beat the head in of a black man who dared to express his disagreement with the healthcare plan.

The powerful SEIU union, acting on behalf of Democrats to squelch dissent, is guilty of bringing the first political violence to America in recent memory.

Top Democrats further demonized those who have political disagreements with them in this morning's USA Today article when they wrote:

"These disruptions are occurring because opponents are afraid not just of differing views - but of the facts themselves. Drowning out opposing views is simply un-American. Drowning out the facts is how we failed at this task for decades."

Uh, excuuuse me. Who is DROWNING OUT FACTS? WHO is afraid of differing views?

President Obama insists that his plan will not destroy private health insurance or force everyone onto the public healthcare plan. However, FACT: on page 16 of the healthcare bill there are provisions that would do exactly that. But whenever this FACT is brought up at townhall meetings across the country, those who bring it up are accused of being un-American. They're accused of drowning out the facts and they're accused of drowning out opposing views. When precisely the opposite is true.

It is the Democrats who are trying to drown out dissent by viciously attacking those whom they represent as un-American and afraid of the facts. And I'm sorry to say, but it is Democrats and their staunch union supporters who PHYSICALLY BEAT A MAN in St. Louis and brought the first violence to this debate. Then they turn right around and accuse Republicans of bringing violence into the debate.

Let's not let this man, Kenneth Gladney, be forgotten. We must remember him and we must remember the way this administration's supporters brought physical violence into the healthcare debate.

Oh, and before you say they ALL do it, that this is no different than how Republicans act, I want you to show me evidence of ONE single physical attack on an Iraq protester by anybody affiliated with any organization that is a consistent strong supporter of Republican candidates. JUST ONE. You can't do it. Because it didn't happen. So no, they're not all the same.
Patrick Wilson
- 1439 posts
August 11, 2009 5:34:18 AM EDT

yeah but republicans have gone to horrible extremes on other issues: what about those tacky republicans who show up at funerals for homosexual and lesbian soldiers... or the violent extremist anti-abortion protestors.

it cuts both ways.
****
oh and here is page 16 of the bill that i downloaded (1000 pages !!!)

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV4
ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov6
erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15
fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER18
MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be26
fore the first day of Y1.

why can't they write in simple sentences?
Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2581 posts
August 11, 2009 10:48:00 AM EDT

Patrick I don't know of any Republicans who show up at funerals for gay soldiers? I don't even know what that means? What are they there for? And do they beat people up? And NO REPUBLICAN LEADER and certainly not 99.9% of Republicans condone any violence related to abortion.

Here we're talking about Democratic LEADERS from the president to the speaker of the house to the majority leader of the Senate. Please... how do you compare that to fringe wackos on either side? IT DOES NOT CUT BOTH WAYS my friend. It certainly does not. You're comparing apples and space ships!

So in the portion of the healthcare bill you provided do you see where it says NO ONE CAN ENROLL in any private insurance plan AFTER this bill becomes law? And even those who keep their current coverage can't keep it past the time the issuer changes the terms... and issuers change terms at least once a year. So basically no one will have private insurance coverage after a YEAR!
Scott Miller
- 1 posts
August 11, 2009 11:05:18 AM EDT

Jonathan,

Of course they don't. Hence the setting up of flag@whitehouse.gov to basically snitch on people over the health care fight.
Or the story running around about Michelle O having cell phones taken from people while she and the girls went to a burger joint in D.C.
As for violence, hell the union thugs at SEIU:

EXCERPTED FROM Chapter 7, “SEIU: Look for the union label,” Culture of Corruption

“The persuasion of power”

Asked about his organizing philosophy, Andy Stern summed it up this way: “[W]e prefer to use the power of persuasion, but if that doesn’t work we use the persuasion of power.”
Jim Linn
- 403 posts
August 11, 2009 11:06:00 AM EDT

Patrick, they are trying to move to a single payer system, i.e., government-controlled healthcare. They don't want to write in simple English. They want you to be confused and not see what they are really trying to do. They are creating a Health Exchange... Your existing private insurance will need to compete with this Exchange insurance. The best example I read to explain how this works is like this.

Let's say your employer is paying your insurance now and it costs $6000 a year. Now let's say the government comes along and forces the employer to offer government insurance as an option. The government insurance says it covers the same things, but they only charge $750 a year. How long do you think it will be before the private insurance is no longer an option? Does it still cost $6000 a year? Well, if they only have $750 a year for your coverage, you only get $750 worth of care. There is where the rationing comes in. In order to get the savings, they need to reduce the amount of care given to patients. So they put a government employee between you and your doctor that makes these decisions. The government argues that you already have someone that is in between you and your doctor now, and that is your private insurance company. But in fact, most people are happy with their insurance, and many doctors accept what the insurance companies pay, and better private insurance has an annual out-of-pocket cap. For instance last year I had two orthroscopic knee surgeries. The total cost for both was nearly $40,000. I paid $2000 out-of-pocket as that was my limit. The insurance company paid the rest.

Another way they will get you in to the government insurance is if you lose your job, then you will either be forced to go on COBRA and pay huge amounts of money every month to keep your existing coverage, or you will need to go on the government plan. Even if you find a new job, the new employer will not be able to offer you the private option according to this bill. Everyone will eventually end up on the government plan.

So you see, you DO get to keep your private plan... for now. But they are really deceiving you into believing that things are not going to change with your existing insurance because they are going to flip everything upside down. Eventually, you will need to go on the government plan with everyone else or pay higher and higher premiums to keep the private insurance and eventually even that will go away through the Exchange. This is the single payer option that the socialists want, and that is not working so well in other countries but the MSM does not focus on here. When they take away our guns and have control of our money, then the affront on our liberty will be complete, and we will be a full-fledged collective. They will establish their one world government and we will all be slaves. Is this the world that you want to pass on to your children? The time to fight this is now. It has fallen on our shoulders to bear this load, and we cannot back down from it.
Todd "tryanmax" Maxwell
- 403 posts
August 11, 2009 11:28:34 AM EDT

I think Patrick is refering to Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church, and he still manages to get it all wrong. First of all, the WBC represent themselves, not the Republican party. They've never affiliated themselves with either party, and I would guess most of them are independants, because I'd wager they find the GOP too liberal. Second, the WBC believes our soldiers die in Iraq because our nation tolorates homosexuals. Somehow, they figure that if we were an anti-gay nation, our soldiers would never, ever die. If there is a funeral for a gay soldier, I'm sure they are there, but they protest all soldiers' funerals with their hateful signs (I can't bring myself to transcribe what they say). Finally, in spite of all of this, they remain a non-violent protest group. Loathsome as it is, they have the right to do what they do, and they take great pains to remain lawful. Way to step in it, Patrick.
Todd "tryanmax" Maxwell
- 403 posts
August 11, 2009 11:30:30 AM EDT

Jonathan,
Or the story running around about Michelle O having cell phones taken from people while she and the girls went to a burger joint in D.C.

This is news to me, can you post a link?
Patrick Wilson
- 1439 posts
August 11, 2009 11:49:31 AM EDT

Cousar and Linn, I'm agreeing with you!!! that's why i posted the segment of the bill and how confusing it is... have you tried to read through this thing?! gah!
Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2581 posts
August 11, 2009 11:55:08 AM EDT

Thanks Todd for that explanation. Yeah, anyone who has to reach down to Fred Phelps to come up with an example of "bad" Republicans is really showing THERE ARE NO EXAMPLES!! Come on get serious. This guy has a church and can only get about 100 people to join. And 75 of those are HIS FAMILY! So please... the guy can't even get more than 25 non-family members to show up!

Boy, that's really desperate Patrick to have to bring up a guy with a 25-person following to try to smear half of America - millions of people who are deeply disgusted with him!

Got any REAL examples?
Jim Linn
- 403 posts
August 11, 2009 11:58:49 AM EDT

I got through enough pieces of it to know that I don't want it to pass in any form. The bill is not a product of a bi-partisan Congress. The Republicans were completely shut out by the Democrats. Fortunately, the other rights that we still have have allowed the people to see what this bill really is, and this has awakened a patriotic spirit in this country not seen in many years. Hopefully, the people will not fall back into their trance. The democrats want to get this bill through before they go back into campaigning mode for the 2010 elections, so that is why they are pushing so hard to get it passed now. They want to have this legislation under their belt so they can make the world look peaceful and wonderful leading up to the November 2010 elections. It's time to throw all of them out, and roll back any legislation passed under this Congress and this "president".
John Marlett
- 18 posts
August 11, 2009 8:00:51 PM EDT

I don't know about u but if they get this passed, I don't care how far or close the elections are I'm not going to forget this. I am going to vote them out if possible even if it doesn't get passed!
BTW: I'm back on! Thanks Johnathan!
AnnMarie McK
- 1 posts
August 11, 2009 11:55:13 PM EDT

This is America & we all Repub's & dem's Conservatives Independants etc...should all be able to speak freely!
Keith Durkee
- 6 posts
August 12, 2009 8:19:37 AM EDT

I think it is so sad that our President feels he has to stoop to these levels of politics just to gain his spot in history. Turning one part of the country against the other just to further is agenda is inexcusable.He'll soon find out that he should not have tread on us.
Todd "tryanmax" Maxwell
- 403 posts
August 12, 2009 11:07:21 AM EDT

Fortunately, the other rights that we still have have allowed the people to see what this bill really is, and this has awakened a patriotic spirit in this country not seen in many years.

Amen to that, but the Dem's keep spreading their lies. After Obama's farcical town hall meeting, I'm convinced he's not even talking about the same bill. I'd get into it here, but I've already gotten into it here.
Rick Sturgeon
- 1 posts
August 12, 2009 6:04:18 PM EDT

Sadly, a Republican controlled congress squandered the opportunity to make positive change that would have avoided Obama becoming Pres in the first place. Conservatives need to be mindful that excess and waste and infringement on personal liberty does not neccessarily wear only one party label. Most reside in the Democratic house, but Republicans have been part of the problem.
Emmett Brannen
- 1 posts
August 12, 2009 7:00:36 PM EDT

Finally found somewhere that true freedom loving americans can voice our opinions, against a socialist party that is hiding behind the idenity of the democratic party....what a ploy..Wise up and Stand up for our country, the memory of millions of americans, women and men, people of different races, from different backgrounds, who defended and died for this country, and the ones who served with honor that are still living. We owe them this without question, it is up to us...YOU and I to speak up whenever we see our government straying from it's duty which is to ensure that every american has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without the government telling us how to we should pursue that path.
Jonathan Cousar
- Internet Czar
- 2581 posts
August 12, 2009 7:12:38 PM EDT

Rick, the Republicans were thwarted at every turn by obstinate Democrats because Republicans didn't have a big enough majority - or a big enough mandate from the American people to do what they wanted. In fact, in the Senate they only had a 1-3 person majority. And as you know that's not enough to exactly have your way. Democrats were able to STOP everything they wanted to stop.

Now we Republicans are bashing our own party because they weren't more successful... but we should be bashing Democrats for stopping them on every good thing they wanted to do.

Ahh, but once again Democrats have us EXACTLY where they want us - bashing our own.

You know Democrats are absolutely loving this - everytime they hear a conservative say "Republicans are no better" - they know that means they're gonna keep winning and winning and winning!

If we don't think Republicans are any better - then we won't be motivated (once again) to go out and vote! And they'll keep their huge majorities.

Don't tell me Republicans aren't better. They're a hell of a lot better. We've just never given them the kind of mandate you have to have in Washington to get anything done.
Sean Rasmussen
- 19 posts
August 12, 2009 7:14:33 PM EDT
LARRY Grizbear Or Griz PUCKETT
- 468 posts
August 12, 2009 8:27:28 PM EDT

ME Too, and in answer to your qQ, No they don't.
When BOOBAMA has people spying on other people to report them for being against his agenda, WE are in BIG trouble. Can you say Nazis Germany?
Dirty Hippie
- 1068 posts
August 15, 2009 6:59:17 PM EDT

Hm. So we're all that union guy? Very well. Then you're ALL that guy who killed an abortion doctor a couple months ago.