Pagans Get Worship Circle at Air Force Academy
Witches, Druids and pagans rejoice! The Air Force Academy in Colorado is about to recognize its first Wiccan prayer circle, a Stonehenge on the Rockies that will serve as an outdoor place of worship for the academy's neo-pagans.
Wiccan cadets and officers on the Colorado Springs base have been convening for over a decade, but the school will officially dedicate a newly built circle of stones on about March 10, putting the outdoor sanctuary on an equal footing with the Protestant, Catholic, Jewish and Buddhist chapels on the base.
"When I first arrived here, Earth-centered cadets didn't have anywhere to call home," said Sgt. Robert Longcrier, the lay leader of the neo-pagan groups on base.
"Now, they meet every Monday night, they get to go on retreats, and they have a stone circle."
Academy officials had no tally of the number of Wiccan cadets at the school of 4,500, but said they had been angling to set up a proper space since the academic year began.
CAN'T THEY JUST SAY THE AIRFORCE DOES NOT RECOGNIZE SATAN WORSHIP AS A RELIGION!? Is it too much to say we don't recognize religions that worship SATAN!
Having studied several religions in my life, Wicca among them, there is no Satan/devil, within thier belief system, as all dieties have both good and bad aspects to them. To declare otherwise would be the equivalent of accusing Catholics of cannabalism for eating "the body of Christ". You should applaud the academy for recognizing something that was important to its students. God Bless America(which ever God you pray to).
Absolutely on target, Rich ... though expect to be fully demonized here at FT for even suggesting such a thing, no matter how much education and/or experience you may have in these matters -- or, even if you do profess to be a Christian yourself.
(Sometimes, here, though it'll drive certain people nuts? It's just best not to specify your own Faith, even if it's similar or the very same as a very select group of FT members' who tend to run in and with a typical pack-mentality. In time, you'll see this for yourself; because, of course, I'm NOT telling you how to approach any of this ... simply offering you a bit of experience-based info, since I joined FT pretty recently myself and have learned a few things in the sometimes "hard way" of attempting open communication about such issues, grin ...)
The sad truth is that there is only a very small percentage of members here who might embrace truly objective discussions regarding any non-Christian Faith, let alone might participate in any sort of honest, civil, unbiased, empirical comparison-studies regarding pretty much any of the myriad religions across the globe ... let alone between the two largest.
But, again, your post is spot-on. The Satan/devil (especially in terms of the Druids/Wiccans) is an entirely Christian creation -- and deliberately manufactured LONG after Druids/Wiccans (among so many other pagans, across the globe) were practicing their ancient Faiths. (I could go on about exactly which pagan entity "Satan" was patterned after, including his most common physical portrayal, etc., but I'm sure you already know this -- and probably far better than I.)
Thus, just as they managed to accomplish with other pagan belief-systems, Christians merged many Druid/Wiccan holidays, dieties/gods/goddesses (aka, "saints" now), traditions/aspects of rituals, etc. with those of the then still-evolving Christian religion -- many of each still practiced by Christians to this day -- especially among the peasantry in their recently conquered territories. This was done purely so that there would be less mass resistance to the forced conversions to Christianity during said "conquerings".
Crap -- I recently wrote that I would never again make the mistake of discussing religious issues of ANY kind on this site, but Jonathon baited me quite nicely at the beginning of this thread, grin ... and, oops, my control finally cracked when I read your post, because, at last -- a bit of Truth about the matter!
It's so refreshing to read someone with actual, historical knowledge and appreciation for facts over formula/propaganda regarding these ever-delicate matters.
SO, ok, then, grin -- as of NOW? I'll start over in refusing to ever participate in religious discussions at FT again, lol ...
Just privately message me sometime, if you'd like, and I'd enjoy the honest discourse. Much of my own continued study right now revolves around Islam, and comparative religions/socio-political impacts of conversion matters from empire to empire, etc. It's a fascinating, timely subject all the way around, no matter anyone's specific Faiths -- but few here are interested in "that" aspect of religious study, so .... I've recently stopped even attempting to learn a deeper alternative perspective and/or to debate the issues, even to "check my own math" ... here, at least.
Anyway -- thanks for your post -- thoroughly enjoyed reading it. I, too, believe that the USAF made a surprisingly wise, open-minded decision in this case, and was also gratified to read that this particular base commander/public affairs staff allowed Sgt. Longcrier to issue his own public comment(s).
Red, thanks for the compliments. I will be here to debate many issues and won't back off the religious ones, if I have something to say, or to learn. I too like to "check my math" from time to time.
I am also interested in seeing "why" people take a certain side. Sometimes that helps me learn more than "what" the opinion is.
I hope to toss some ideas around soon.
Interesting takes from all of you!
Here's my 2 cents. I take a "Divine Council" view of God and gods, which is not mainstream. Because of that, I have a feeling I will be taken out of context, but this is an important subject, and something that will keep popping up.
I live 3 miles from the USAFA. I'm there a couple times a month as a contractor. It's quite a campus. 18,000 acres of the most pristine forest at the foot of Pikes Peak. If you ever get out here, it's worth a visit.
I have talked about this issue with a couple of my neighbors who are AFA alumnus, one taught there for 20+ years. They are both traditional Christians, and take the same stance as Jonathan, basically. One even went as far as saying that the government should "sanction" religions that are acceptable. I disagree. To me you either have to not condone any religion, or condone them all. I would like to see the government stay out of religion all together, because you can never make everyone happy at the same time. Government should stay out of the peoples beliefs, and visa versa, but should allow people freely express their faith without fear. This is the esscence of the 1st amendment, I believe.
This has nothing to do with morality. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights are based on John Locke, Montesquieu, the Bible, Greek philosophy, and Freemasonry. I think our founding documents establish a firm moral foundation that we should adhere to, not add to.
As for Wiccans worshipping the god(s) of this world, I believe they do, but so what? Many "sanctioned" religions do they same, some even call themselves "Christian", and are seen as acceptable.
I would rather see private citizens and/or business have the liberty to share and express faith as they see fit, without fear of being in violation of an unconstitutional law.
As far as I know, Islam is the only 'religion' that believes that it ok to kill anyone who does not practice their 'faith'.
Interesting. What were all those christian warriors thinking over the years then? Oh yea, the same thing as the Muslims: Free ticket to heaven!
DH is right. There was much bloodshed in the name of Christ, and there continues to be, albeit much more subtle these days. But you need to understand it was political and power motivated. The 'visible church' during those days was the 'king maker'. You had to bow and kiss the papal ring to get anywhere then. They marginalized or exterminated those who didn't. They hunted down and killed those who were the worst offenders, especially those who believed in the Bible and wanted to get it in the hands of the common folk, as the God of the Bible liberates men from the dominion of man. Check out the stories of these 2 men, Jan Hus, and William Tyndale.
I agree Chris. The past is the past. Man's sins agains man are numerous and come from all groups. Unfortunately history does repeat itself unless the lessons are learned.
My purpose in bringing the past up is to illustrate that 'visible church' is not necessarily the representatives of Christ on earth. DH, is correct in his point, the sins of all those who call themselves Christian do not apply to the whole. This tactic is not right when used against any group....even Muslims.
The past agressions by Christians were mostly due to a reason you sighted earlier. In the middle ages we tend to think of most forms of governments as Monachies, when in fact they were a combination of Monarchies, and Theocracies. Monarchs using the church as a tool to wage their wars, with the help of the churches hirearchy. The only way to justify waging war under a religious banner is to call it a "holy war" in the name of God. Western culture has since been able to rid itself of Monarchies, and Theocracies. Find the most troublesome areas of the world and you will find them in one form or another. The most troublesome seem to be the countries with that infamous combination of the two. As long as there are despots in the world willing to place the name of God on their mortal squabbles, crimes against man in the name of God will continue.
Preemptive strike.
Direct Hit.
We are getting dangerously close to the truth. In ANY religion man is meaningless. The works of man are soaked in blood. Past? Future?... even present. Will we ever learn? I hope so. God is real. Not the figure-head for our worldly ambitions. Dirty Hippie, you are right in that God will tire of being made the scapegoat for man's bloody works. And tire quickly it seems of late... who is shaking the earth?
Preemptive strike.
Direct Hit.
We are getting dangerously close to the truth. In ANY religion man is meaningless. The works of man are soaked in blood. Past? Future?... even present. Will we ever learn? I hope so. God is real. Not the figure-head for our worldly ambitions. Dirty Hippie, you are right in that God will tire of being made the scapegoat for man's bloody works. And tire quickly it seems of late... who is shaking the earth?
And truth is what we seek.
DH really said that? A revelation from our young friend. Very good.
Pagans Get Worship Circle at Air Force Academy
Witches, Druids and pagans rejoice! The Air Force Academy in Colorado is about to recognize its first Wiccan prayer circle, a Stonehenge on the Rockies that will serve as an outdoor place of worship for the academy's neo-pagans.
Wiccan cadets and officers on the Colorado Springs base have been convening for over a decade, but the school will officially dedicate a newly built circle of stones on about March 10, putting the outdoor sanctuary on an equal footing with the Protestant, Catholic, Jewish and Buddhist chapels on the base.
"When I first arrived here, Earth-centered cadets didn't have anywhere to call home," said Sgt. Robert Longcrier, the lay leader of the neo-pagan groups on base.
"Now, they meet every Monday night, they get to go on retreats, and they have a stone circle."
Academy officials had no tally of the number of Wiccan cadets at the school of 4,500, but said they had been angling to set up a proper space since the academic year began.
CAN'T THEY JUST SAY THE AIRFORCE DOES NOT RECOGNIZE SATAN WORSHIP AS A RELIGION!? Is it too much to say we don't recognize religions that worship SATAN!
