Hey Dale,
The problem I have with David Barton, the founder of Wall Builders, is that he goes around to Evangelical Christian churches and teaches an incomplete and white washed view of the founding fathers. While they were men of great stature and character, most of them were not Christians in the sense that Barton makes them out to be. Even though they believed in the Judeo-Christian ethic, and injected those principals into our founding documents, most were deists. Which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. Their writtings clearly deny several key tenants of the Christian faith that the people Barton is preaching to would hold as sacred and non-negotiable.
Consider these facts:
With all this in mind it's hard for me to believe that the phrase "In God We Trust" is refering to the God of the Bible. It makes more sense that it's refering to the god of masonry, or the "Great Architech", as they call it.
In conclusion, the brilliance of the first amenment and the rest of our founding documents are a testiment to the wisdom and greatness of these men. I just object to the revisionist history David Barton pedals, even though I wish it were true.
Hey Dale,
The problem I have with David Barton, the founder of Wall Builders, is that he goes around to Evangelical Christian churches and teaches an incomplete and white washed view of the founding fathers. While they were men of great stature and character, most of them were not Christians in the sense that Barton makes them out to be. Even though they believed in the Judeo-Christian ethic, and injected those principals into our founding documents, most were deists. Which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. Their writtings clearly deny several key tenants of the Christian faith that the people Barton is preaching to would hold as sacred and non-negotiable.
Consider these facts:
With all this in mind it's hard for me to believe that the phrase "In God We Trust" is refering to the God of the Bible. It makes more sense that it's refering to the god of masonry, or the "Great Architech", as they call it.
In conclusion, the brilliance of the first amenment and the rest of our founding documents are a testiment to the wisdom and greatness of these men. I just object to the revisionist history David Barton pedals, even though I wish it were true.
Spot on I agree! David Barton is also not a Christian! Wolf in sheeps clothing! Christians need to stop following the hearts of men and start seeking the face of God!
I had forgotten that I posted this so I am glad it has come back to my attention. Brett, I apologize that I have not responded until now.
Looking back I feel I may have posted this in haste with out really fully understanding Mr. Bartons ideas and positions.I can see where he may be stretching a little far to draw some of his conclusions. I cannot disagree with the points that you, Brett, have made here because in order to do that I would be going against everything that I have posted on FT up until now. I agree with each of the points that you have made here.
It is true that many of the founders were deist and freemasons therefore the seeds for the eventual downfall of this nation may have been planted at it's very foundation whether intentional or not. (However, they were very intelligent men and most knew all too well the cycle of democracy and knew that every democracy eventually commits suicide and ends up as an oligarchy. Could this be why democracy is being pushed on all of these nations around the world? )
There is no doubt in my mind that King George did his best to see to it that those seeds would be planted un-noticed into our founding documents in order to set a trap that he might latter be able to spring on us in order to get back what we took from him. I don't think he was successful if that is the case so the Europeans had to figure out another way to accomplish their goal. This brings me back to the Federal Reserve which is comprised of mostly European Families who form this private banking cabal. "Give me control of a nations money and I care not who makes it's laws."
On the other hand...
I also know that there were plenty of theist in the mix so it seems that even then there was a struggle between secularism. theism, and deism. That being the case, they apparently tried to hash out their common beliefs, the unalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which resulted in the historical documents that we have today and instead of a democracy we have a Republic. Many of the principles that they built into our system of government were rooted in Christian theology therefore the basis to assert that we are a Christian nation was established.
"Thomas Jefferson and John Witherspoon may have disagreed on theology but they both embraced a document that would not have been possible without Christian theology. Both men understood “self-evident truths,” “laws of Nature,” “consent of the governed,” and “unalienable rights.” Those concepts were all shaped and developed by various Christian thinkers dating from the Middle Ages. They did not originate with the age of Deism but preceeded it."
The "separation of church and state" doctrine that we hear so much about today is an intentional perversion of the original intent of the 1st amendment. This wall of separation has a door in it that only swings one way and was meant to keep the state out of the business of establishing religion while at same time allowing a religious people access to the government that would be serving them as well as those who where not religious. While the Constitution is basically a secular document, it was constructed to protect the Christian principles that were laid out in the Declaration of Independence.
The freemasons that you have mentioned have had a strong influence on our nation but I think that they are probably just puppets that have been maniplulated by the money powers. Then again, maybe it is the other way around. I can't say for sure. The examples of their influence that you have given are factual and I do not deny them. . But regardless of all of the marks that they have made on our nation it is really irrelevant if we, the people of this nation realize this and take back the reigns as it was intended to be in the first place. But until we realize and understand the ideology of collectivism that we are being enslaved by we cannot fight it. We have to take it back the same way it was taken from us and that begins with educating people and regaining control of the power centers of our nation.
This nation was built on biblical principles regardless of who it was that implemented them. That is undeniable. I do not begrudge anyones religion as long as it is peaceful and does not threaten or cause harm to others or myself. Therefore, anyone who chooses to live here should respect that and if they cannot then they should not be allowed to be here. Period!
Your claims that most of the Founding Fathers were Deist doesn't hold water specifically because of how Deism is defined. A NON-BELIEF in Christianity as a revealed religion, and a belief that the Bible is NOT the Word of God.
If the definition of being Christian is that one believes in Christ, then you're right, ALL of the founders were Christian. However, if that definition would include:
Then their "Christianity" is suspect. They might just have the "another Jesus"; 2 Corinthians 11:4
What you say DOES NOT disprove what I originally wrote. Go back and disprove the bullet points I brought up.
It might just be that my definition of what a "Christian" is, has certain "non-negotiables", and yours does not...and that's OK, it's a free country thanks to the GREAT men who founded it.
My beef with Barton is that he's NOT telling the whole truth.
Deification of the founders or this country is IDOLATRY, and is an afront to simple faith in Jesus our saviour.
Bret, i question your resource information on what masons are and aren't and what they do in lodge. Until you provide facts i must insist that you remove it as it has no basis for argument but pure conjecture at this point.
Clearly i assert that you are a conspiracy theorist. If i were to take a map of any large city i suppose i could find numerous designs not intentionally placed there. The next thing i suppose is you are going to tell us about playing records backwards and hearing the devil himself.
Lastly i would encourage you to learn Greek and Hebrew so you can ascertain and glean the truth from the original texts as what you are reading is a book that was interpreted by order of King James.
There are more resources than you can shake a stick at about masons and founding fathers even the oneside of history history channel has done some reasonably interesting stuff on masons. the ocult influince is obvious when you look at the ritules of masons and other like groups mason practices are in direct contridiction to God (Yahweh) who sent his only begotten son Jeshua the Lamb of God the Lord and Saviour to all through faith. Just useing god in a sentence doesn't always mean you are refering to the one true God. There are those in this country and who signed the DI and Constitution that worship a diffrent god! There are also lots of tools for greek and hebrew translations that will show that Gods word can servive all times even when it is poorly translated like in the King James!
