I really don't know where you get these ideas. Looks to me like its you looking down on people, not me. Get off your high horse. You have anything productive to say here or is this gonna be another conversation about how young and foolish i am?
Hey DH! You hit a hot button with me in a very good way. I like this site but I am pretty new and am learning that it leaves me sometimes not wanting to come back. The reason for that is the people on this site who claim they are Christians are not always speaking or acting Christ like, whatsoever. You have views and theories and you are entitled to them. Some of us may not agree with you just as you do not disagree with us. But I have to say that you have never (as far as I have seen) personally attacked or belittled anyone because he or she thinks differently than you. Especially in forums related to Faith, I see more and more "Christians" telling you that you are an idiot or stupid and it really hurts me to see that because my Savior would not want that for you regardless of whether or not you believe in Him.
I value your input here and love the challenges you bring to our discussions about spirituality, religion, etc. I actually become stronger in my own beliefs because I respond to your challenges in my own mind and am learning so much more. I don't know if you will always believe what you believe or if someday you may be more open to other theories, but I can say this - when I was about 30 years old, I had a lot of questions and wasn't taking anyone's word for it - I needed to discover for myself what I believe. It has taken me 10 years and it has been the most amazing revelation of my life. I have all the proof I need to believe what I believe.
Be well and thank you for being a part of our lives.
Wow! The last time I as was here I posted to Gareth and then saw DH post to me, but as Dh puts it, I had to go about my DULL life and get my beautiful granddaughter ready to go to a slumber party, Just one of the many dull things in life that brings me much JOY! AND I COME BACK 3 HOURS LATER TO THIS!
Dana - The reason for that is the people on this site who claim they are Christians are not always speaking or acting Christ like, whatsoever. Tell me Dana, as a Christian, how am I suppose to act. Am I suppose to sit here and read that DH does not believe in our LORD JESUS CHRIST and not say anything? Wrong. As a Christian, it is my duty to God to spread His word and if that means having healthy debate on how we were put on this earth, then so be it. I would be very negligent as a Christian if I did that. Believe I know. I have to debate the Bible in my own household on a daily basis. I have to pray so hard for my son because of the way the world has turned the Bible around or tried to say it is false. You see, on Thanksgiving Day 2008 my son decided to tell me that he thought he was GAY. Now this was not easy for him because if there is one thing he knows for sure is my Faith and that I totally believe that it goes against all God's laws. I love my son, he loves me. We still have a very healthy, loving relationship even though I tell him quite often that my mind will never change and that I PRAY FOR HIM, JUST LIKE I TELL DH I PRAY FOR HIM. And just like I pray for all people Christian or not but especially those that make my heart cry that they may never know the JOY and LOVE of God here on Earth and the PEACE that it can bring you. But bigger than that, that they may not get to HEAVEN. I cry everyday for my son, for his partner, for his friends (people I have never met, but will welcome them in my home to show them the LOVE I have for them and that God has for them).
Christians" telling you that you are an idiot or stupid - I think you should re-read the post. I did not call him a Idiot. I said his ignorance of the Bible was showing. Big difference and right now I can't see who posted it but they said something about us butterflies and US beings the IDIOTS.
But I have to say that you have never (as far as I have seen) personally attacked or belittled anyone because he or she thinks differently than you. - I don't know when you came on this site but maybe you should go back and read all the post by DH. I left the site for a couple of days myself because of him. I was feeling my Christian Love being drained out of me by some of the, how did you put it, attacks or belittling things he was posting to me. I had to take a step back and ask God what he wanted me to do and as always he gave me the strength to continue. I was not looking down on DH, as he was posting things about the Bible and I had every right just like everyone else to put my input into the debate and try and lead him in a direction that he might learn something from the Bible.
If it seems like I am mad, it's because I am. I sit here right now asking God to forgive me for losing my cool and to forgive me. But I don't think it is fair that you have judged people like this, when all they are trying to do is spritually enlighten DH. I am no way a perfect Christian. I ask God to forgive me everyday for that of which I might have offended Him. After reading these post I now need to step back again and ask God is this the right site for me. I have been totally hurt and disillusioned. May God Bless You Always. Now I will end this and start on DH's quote which was why I had came back to this to begin with after I got done helping my granddaughter.
And im curious to know why you're so sure in yours. At least mine has SOME scientific basis.
Edie- Sure all those peoples lifetimes add up to more than a few thousand. Buuuut how many million years? Ive asked this before. Does god really have such a sense of humor that he put fossils and ancient seeming rock layers in the ground simply to screw with us?
As for this lovely tidbit...
Faith is more powerful than any scientific mind any day!- Edie
Give me any example EVER when this has held true. Not from the bible. From documented history. Faith does not stop bullets. They try that in Africa. Science however, does.
DH - Does god really have such a sense of humor that he put fossils and ancient seeming rock layers in the ground simply to screw with us? I DON'T KNOW DH. WHY DON'T YOU ASK OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST TO COME INTO YOUR HEART AND ONE DAY WHEN HE COMES BACK FOR HIS CHILDREN TO TAKE TO LIVE IN THAT GLORIOUS PLACE CALLED HEAVEN, YOU CAN ASK HIM YOURSELF!
Faith does not stop bullets. - WELL, ASK A SOLDIER WHO HAS A VERY NEAR MISS OF A BULLET AND HE THANKS GOD. ASK A SOLDIER WHO DID GET HIT WITH A BULLET AND THAT BULLET SHOULD HAVE KILLED HIM AND HE THANKS GOD. ASK ME WHO HAS BEEN IN 3 TERRIBLE AUTO ACCIDENTS. ONE WAS A HEAD ON COLLISION DOING 55 MPH, SEAT BELT, THROWN TO THE OTHER SIDE OF MY VAN (WHEN IN ALL SCIENTIFIC MEASURES I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THRUST OUT THE WINDSHIELD AND KILLED) AND I THANKED GOD FOR BEING THERE FOR ME. HOW ABOUT THE ACCIDENT WHEN WE WERE DOING 20MPH AND A DRUNK DRIVER RAN INTO THE BACK OF US DOING 60MPH (SHE SAID SHE THOUGHT WE WERE A CHRISTMAS LIGHT) I THANKED GOD THAT NIGHT THAT MY FAMILY WAS NOT HURT MORE THEN THEY WERE AND I THANKED HIM THAT WE WERE THERE TO SAVE THAT WOMEN'S LIFE. YOU SEE, NOT EVEN 2/10TH OF A MILE THE ROAD ENDED AND AT THE END OF THAT ROAD WAS A BIG TREE. THE SHERIFF SAID SHE WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO STOP.
So you see DH, I don't need science to tell me that my God holds me in His hands and protects me and leads me. I just have to have FAITH. AS ALWAYS GOD'S BLESSINGS AND STILL PRAYING FOR YOU! EDIE
I agree with the last few comments. I was hoping when I saw this post by Gareth that it would take a different path than the last few times we tried to discuss these issues.
Back to the original post, the author said this:
"While science has nothing of value to say on the great and aching questions of life, death, love, and meaning, what the religious traditions of mankind have said forms a coherent body of thought. The yearnings of the human soul are not in vain. There is a system of belief adequate to the complexity of experience. There is recompense for suffering. A principle beyond selfishness is at work in the cosmos. All will be well.
I do not know whether any of this is true. I am certain that the scientific community does not know that it is false."
Bret,
Surprisingly enough, there are scientist who actually agree with the creation story. There was a story years ago out of Russia. The man who came up with quantum math was asked by the powers that be to use math to determine the age of the earth. This form of math is supposed to take things to there starting point through mathematics. This man did the work and after months gave the powers that be his answer; they in turn told him to do it again; that the answer couldn't be right.
He did as they asked and once again gave them his answer. They did not like it but they accepted it. I will have to do some homework to tell you all where to look. His answer was no older then 10,000 yrs old and no younger then 5000 yrs. I will do some research so you all don't think I'm making this up.
I believe science DOES have something to say about these issues. My problem is with "science", defining these issues, which seems to be the case too often.
I had an atheist tell me recently that science had, for the most part, figured everything out, and all that's left is filling in the holes on current theory(s). In my view, this is not only wrong, but violates what the spirit of scientific inquiry should be.
Question. Are we here for some serious debate or are we going to have to watch what we say so as to not offend. Everyone of us has a right to their opinion. It sounds as though there are some thin skinned people here. Get over it.To coin a phrase, "If you don't like it put a helmet on." Now that that is out of my system can we get back to the debate?
Question. Are we here for some serious debate or are we going to have to watch what we say so as to not offend. Everyone of us has a right to their opinion. It sounds as though there are some thin skinned people here. Get over it.To coin a phrase, "If you don't like it put a helmet on." Now that that is out of my system can we get back to the debate?
Love the reference to Go Fish's Christmas with a Capital C. I played it over and over this past Chhristmas season and posted on facebook quite often too! LOVE IT!
Gareth, you have always been most gracious in your posts and if anyone takes offense it is within them and nothing to do with you.
I second that sentiment, Gareth. The animosity comes not from you. There's an idiological rift, and its just one of those things that cannot be bridged. There is a handful of antogonists that insist they are correct in their position, and an equally opposed camp that has no intention of relinquishing 1mm of intellectual property. When one side gets flustered, some not-so-nice remarks are made. They don't get forgotten so easily,...thus the age old Hatfield's-and-McCoy's battle royale begins anew. You are just seeing it from a new angle,...but the debate has been going on long before you logged in. Its fun when the civility is maintained, but all to often it degrades into shots at each other's core beliefs,...
Sad in some ways, but at least its entertaining for a while.
Well said Jay. The argument over science, and religion has been around since the dawn of man. What can't be attributed to science is then relegated to God. I submit that these arguments are are no argument at all. We have been over and over the evolution versus inteligent design topic many times in these forums. I can find nothing in one that either proves, or disproves the other. I consider myself a creationist, but fully recognize evolution. I can justify science by looking to God. If you take as fact that all things were created by God, when something is "created" there have to be rules that guide that creation, otherwise you have created nothing. Science is simply the rules that give all things structure. The study of science is the discovery of those rules. As far as evolution goes? Who's to say we and everything known and unknown aren't still in the oven. A work not yet done, and being created under a group of specified parameteres that we in our feeble attempt to justify our being call science.
I submit that these arguments are are no argument at all. We have been over and over the evolution versus inteligent design topic many times in these forums. I can find nothing in one that either proves, or disproves the other. I consider myself a creationist, but fully recognize evolution.
