I had evolution taught to me as theory. Either i go to the only school that teaches accurate history and teaches things as theory or everyone on here is full of crap. I refuse to believe i happened to have the only open minded science professor in the country. You're a professor yourself Gareth, you should know better.
That said, im glad someone is making an intelligent argument instead of sending passages from the bible to scientists. I still think its absolutely ridiculous to believe the world is only a few thousand years old, and even without scientific investigation its pretty clear thats not true. However hes right that there are a lot of questions science can't answer about where we came from.
DH - Don't bother wasting your energy on a reply to me to try and get me going cause I will not waste my time answering. I just thought since your ignorance was showing through on the Bible and the history of it, you needed a little quick course, or at least led in the right direction to do your studying. As much as I do not like to give the Atheist Scholars any credit at all, I must give them credit they at least have read the Bible to know that of which they write about.
My Dear DH, Start your study in the first book of the Bible NIV, Genesis. Go to Chapter 5 and start there. Now, try and go through all 39 books of the Old Testament and count all the years of age each person was. I can't do it, I admit it. lt is an a arduous task to get to even get to the birth of Christ, let alone the 30+ years to start year 1 AD (If you don't know what AD is, it is After Death, The Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for YOUR SINS). What I can admit to, is all the years of every man in the Old Testament add up to well over, in your words "a few thousand years old". You see, 2010 is only AFTER DEATH OF OUR PRECIOUS JESUS CHRIST!
As for science vs Bible of were we come from, I prefer to believe in FAITH. Faith is more powerful than any scientific mind any day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piuoGb-Nhfw
As always, God Bless you and I will be praying for you!
Well, it looks like should have kept that one to myself. As far as the comment about me being a professor and should know better. I am where I am because I have an open mind and am willing to at least look at all sides of an issue. I took your comment DH as a real slap in the chops. Especially, after I gave you a respectful reply. When you obtain your Ph.D, come back and we will continue this discussion.
Bravo, Gareth Dear
DH I draw your attention to this "I do not know whether any of this is true. I am certain that the scientific community does not know that it is false" ....DH, I am curious to know why you are so sure of your theory?
Well, it looks like should have kept that one to myself. As far as the comment about me being a professor and should know better. I am where I am because I have an open mind and am willing to at least look at all sides of an issue. I took your comment DH as a real slap in the chops. Especially, after I gave you a respectful reply. When you obtain your Ph.D, come back and we will continue this discussion.
I wouldn't worry about anything DH says. Remember where he is in his life and where you are in yours. If you ask him, he will tell you how brilliant he is. Afterall, is he not Omniscient, Omnipresent, and Omniflatulent at this stage of his life? He is like the Butterfly that lives for only a day, sitting on the limb of a 200 year old redwood tree, convinced that he knows how that tree came to exist - telling all the other butterflies that they are idiots and should listen to him.
In a day he will no longer be around and the tree will continue to grow a little more each day.
Like democracy or justice, science is a word exhausted by its examples. We have been vouchsafed four powerful and profound scientific theories since the great scientific revolution of the West was set in motion in the seventeenth century-Newtonian mechanics, James Clerk Maxwell's theory of the electromagnetic field, special and general relativity, and quantum mechanics. These are isolated miracles, great mountain peaks surrounded by a range of low, furry foothills. The theories that we possess are "magnificent, profound, difficult, sometimes phenomenally accurate," as the distinguished mathematician Roger Penrose has observed, but, as he at once adds, they also comprise a "tantalizingly inconsistent scheme of things."
These splendid artifacts of the human imagination have made the world more mysterious than it ever was. We know better than we did what we do not know and have not grasped. We do not know how the universe began. We do not know why it is there. Charles Darwin talked speculatively of life emerging from a "warm little pond!' The pond is gone. We have little idea how life emerged, and cannot with assurance say that it did. We cannot reconcile our understanding of the human mind with any trivial theory about the manner in which the brain functions. Beyond the trivial, we have no other theories. We can say nothing of interest about the human soul. We do not know what impels us to right conduct or where the form of the good is found.
You know, it would really be a good idea if folks carefully read what Berlinski is actually saying before blasting off comments. That is all I'm going to say in the matter.
Gareth - I don't know if that was directed at me for my comment on science and Faith, but in my defense of that, I have to state "I have a great deal of admiration for the science field" SHORT OF...telling me I came from a "warm little pond" or from an ape. This is where my admiration of my Faith is stronger. I was just trying to get that point across to DH. If it weren't for science we would not be sitting here conversing on this thing called a computer. So I am sorry if I offended you in anyway. That was not my intention. I do read post before I comment on them.
. God Bless and Have a Great Day!
I really don't know where you get these ideas. Looks to me like its you looking down on people, not me. Get off your high horse. You have anything productive to say here or is this gonna be another conversation about how young and foolish i am?
Hey DH! You hit a hot button with me in a very good way. I like this site but I am pretty new and am learning that it leaves me sometimes not wanting to come back. The reason for that is the people on this site who claim they are Christians are not always speaking or acting Christ like, whatsoever. You have views and theories and you are entitled to them. Some of us may not agree with you just as you do not disagree with us. But I have to say that you have never (as far as I have seen) personally attacked or belittled anyone because he or she thinks differently than you. Especially in forums related to Faith, I see more and more "Christians" telling you that you are an idiot or stupid and it really hurts me to see that because my Savior would not want that for you regardless of whether or not you believe in Him.
I value your input here and love the challenges you bring to our discussions about spirituality, religion, etc. I actually become stronger in my own beliefs because I respond to your challenges in my own mind and am learning so much more. I don't know if you will always believe what you believe or if someday you may be more open to other theories, but I can say this - when I was about 30 years old, I had a lot of questions and wasn't taking anyone's word for it - I needed to discover for myself what I believe. It has taken me 10 years and it has been the most amazing revelation of my life. I have all the proof I need to believe what I believe.
Be well and thank you for being a part of our lives.
Dana and Jonathan, you are right of course. And if I have offended anyone here I am sorry. It is time for me to step back a bit and realize that my views and beliefs exist only in my own mind and are not valid for anyone else. I consider myself a sinner and would never look down upon anyone. I am sorry if I left that impression. We are all equal in God's eyes.
Dana and Jonathan, you are right of course. And if I have offended anyone here I am sorry. It is time for me to step back a bit and realize that my views and beliefs exist only in my own mind and are not valid for anyone else. I consider myself a sinner and would never look down upon anyone. I am sorry if I left that impression. We are all equal in God's eyes.
Bless you Gerald! My note was not aimed at anyone but to all of us as a whole. It has been a pressing concern of mine and I didn't know how to broach the subject with the site but had planned to try this weekend. Much to my surprise, DH opened the door for me. I think we have all been guilty of lashing out a bit when we are arguing views that we are passionate about, but like you said - what is valid for one might not be so for another. It comes down to respecting one another and treating each other the way we would want to be treated. No matter what the topic, we will not be able to successfully debate our views if we are defensive, offensive or demoralizing.
